Nightmare needs their own tier plus Smogon keeps banning.

I don't understand the thread here. Excadrill being banned? Gladly. Thundurus being banned? Okay. Reuniclus being banned? Probably won't.

Suspect means it'll be under testing due to having some sort of relevence in metagame centralization. Excadrill, with a mediocre 2 reliable counters, (Skarmory not being able to beat it 1 v 1) centralizes the metagame for the reason of simple sweeping with +2 SD.

Although Reuniclus doesn't deserve to be banned due to it's Psychic typing, giving it weakness to Dark, Ghost, and Bug. I'm guessing that's the reason why you think Smogon is retarded? Probably won't go through the Suspect into ubers anyway.

Thundurus has 111 speed outspeeding nearly half the metagame barring Scarfers. With unstoppable coverage and Nasty Plot, I'm sure there's not much to counter it in the end. (Not even Blissey)

And so, if the main reason of this thread is to create Nightmare tiers, then all right then. As of so far, I haven't seen many mistakes from Smogon.

The only pokemon I find truly broken out of the ones above is excadrill. Excadrill is nearly unstoppable this generation, and has brought sandstorm into comptetitive play far too much. I feel like every other team I fight is a sandstorm one. However, some common pokemon can force it out, such as gliscor, balloon heatran, or skarmory.

Thunderus is a pest, but I've never actually considered it broken or a threat. It was often used as a lead, so a way to take care of it is to simply kill it before it can use nasty plot and another move. It loses to essentially all anti-leads and often uses taunt turn one, allowing opponents to 2hko it before it really has a chance to shine. It is a special attacker, and is walled by bliss and chance, and dislikes porygon2 as well. It even loses to the common lead tyranitar (w/focus sash).

Reuniclus is annoying, but not unstoppable. I've found that one of the top pokemon, scizor, kill it quite effectively, using pursuit to trap it, or alternatively getting a free swords dance in the process. Those lacking psycho shock don't like taking blissey either. Also, it hates taunt.

Even though I don't understand some of the banning, Smogon knows well. People make fun of them, but really, they are dedicated to pokemon and are trying to do their best. They know what they are doing, so Smogon tiers do have validity. They also do tests for the tiers, so smogoning isn't always bad.

Nightmare is dedicated to pokemon as well and we're trying to do our best too .
I think Nightmare needs its own tiers to avoid all this banning crap . I really don't like it.

I personally can see many mistakes coming from Smogon and I'll give all support to create our own tiers.
Smogon underrates many pokes and overrates a selected few.

I'm not sure if this will ever be "big" or well-respected in the world of pokemon, but I do like the idea of unbanning/banning some pokemon. Also, I'd really like a larger BL tier and smaller NU tier.

Eh we've tried Tiers before but not enough people showed intrest like I said in chat when you brought this up we'd only be willing to put that much time and effort in if people support it and I for one won't do it with anything less than at least 15 people wanting their own Tiers.

Yeah, It would be really cool to have our own tiers and expand the Tiers list.
It looks like we're going to have to get 15 supporters here.

Smogon are fags, Plus i don't want them to banned Reuniclus its my jelly baby. Plus wouldn't it be a bit hard putting every single pokemon into a tier? But other than that its ok

Just to refresh some memories: Smogon didn't handle Gen 4 well, and it's doing terribly bad at Gen 5. Here are some exemples of Gen 4:

1. Espeon: This buddy has high special attack and speed, and had access to Calm Mind. It could run on UU all every day without problems, and even do nice damage on OU, BUT it was NU last Gen.

2. Heracross: This was Smogon's most idiot decision. It started as OU, which should have been its tier. But it then became UU, dominating that tier completely. It was then changed to BL. For those who don't remember, BL had only 11 Pokemon in it. Can that be called a tier? Was it possible to have a BL team or a BL tourney? Nope, Smogon never cared about any tier but OU and what was "broken" to be there in their opinion.

That is true with the support problem. Last time we tried to make tiers, I noticed that the tier thread was locked to all viewers and hadn't been touched since march or may. So far, we've only 5 supporters, but that may change in a little while.

This is ridiculous. Smogon has made some mistakes in the past, but I can bet you our tiers would have more mistakes than Smogon's ever did. I'd be very happy if Excadrill was banned, but the rest probably won't go into ubers.

Safiliwen wrote:Eh we've tried Tiers before but not enough people showed intrest like I said in chat when you brought this up we'd only be willing to put that much time and effort in if people support it and I for one won't do it with anything less than at least 15 people wanting their own Tiers.

Yes, most people will still use Smogon's tiers anyway. No one ever used the old tiers we had (although, they were outdated). And I don't know about you, but I'm sure as hell not categorizing 649 Pokemon into tiers for fifteen people. Obviously, others could do it, but it would simply be a waste of time and effort.

Smogon knows what they're doing. Have they made mistakes? Sure. But the majority of their decisions are well analyzed and thought out. I don't want a metagame centralized around a few over-powered Pokemon, and I can't imagine why anyone else would either.

We didn't have tiers. Those were test lists to make our tiers.
Excadrill a problem? That's not true. The problem itself is Sandstorm + Sand Rush. If that combination were banned as Drzzle + Swift Swim is, there'd be no problem.

If you guys don't want to put work into these tiers just for 15 people to use, I don't know about you but i'll put in the work if you let me.